San Antonio ACS Stops Accepting Cats In Traps
San Antonio took a huge step forward today to embrace the Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) program. At a press conference, Animal Care Services (ACS) Director Jef Hale announced that, effective April 1st of 2008 (next week), the city will no longer accept cats in traps at its facility or in the field. Last year, the city adopted a Strategic Plan to attain No-Kill status in San Antonio by 2012. Today's announcement proves that the city is continuing to make gains in embracing No-Kill and will save the lives of countless stray and feral cats. Accepting cats in traps at the ACS facility has always been tantamount to more of the same kill mentality that has affected our community for decades. This new change in policy puts San Antonio on the right track and will dramatically reduce the numbers of cats taken into the ACS facility. I am thrilled.
A recent change to the city's animal ordinance (December 2007), which now provides for legalized TNR programs, makes all of this possible. Jef remarked that the city has done nothing to improve the situation regarding free-roaming cats over the past three decades, so the problem never got better. Statistics at the ACS facility in recent years have shown that most cats brought in (usually in traps) have resulted in the killing of about 85-90% of those cats. What a tragedy. Now, with an increased emphasis on adoptions, working with rescue groups, and cutting off the intake of cats in traps, ACS is saying we need to change the way we think by embracing TNR. ACS will now begin offering alternatives for those people who still need help with stray and feral cats. ACS used to loan out traps to enable cats to be caught and brought in for killing, now they will loan deterrents to help people deal with cats humanely.
ACS will partner with the San Antonio Feral Cat Coalition (SAFCC) to provide different ways to address nuisance behaviors of stray and feral cats. Some of those alternatives will be: 1) encouraging people to attend SAFCC's TNR Workshops; 2) offering deterrents to people complaining about cats in their yards; and 3) specifically addressing free-roaming cat nuisance behaviors in a humane fashion. Jef indicated that he will have a dedicated ACS person to work on this initiative.
In addition, Jef said there are plans to increase the capacity of spaying and neutering pets in the community, including feral cats. ACS will shortly begin offering SAFCC 30 appointments on Fridays to spay/neuter feral cats. ACS will also offer no/low-cost spay and neuter to the public. Most of the complaints ACS has received in the past involved intact (non-sterilized) cats. Sterilizing them will greatly reduce nuisances from free-roaming cats.
Congratulations to Jef Hale and the San Antonio Feral Cat Coalition. Your partnership will save many kitty lives and help those people to address cat issues in our community. Well done!
(Jef Hale gives TNR a big thumbs up!)
I am so happy to see more TNR programs available for the many kitties that need our help. Thanks Jef Hale & SAFCC for your efforts in our goal to help the kitties & educate the community.
owners to have cats on their property
(because we know deterrents do not work).
You either have to do TNR or do nothing.
And you can't dispose of the animal yourself, but
I'll bet people will get desperate and start
shooting, drowning, taking the cats somewhere
else and dumping them.
They really did not think this one through.
People have to have an option that does not
include tolerating cats on their properties.
And what about lands managed for wildlife?
As for TNR being irresponsible, ect... that is inaccurate. Feral cats are not the demise of wildlife and people with thoughts such as these should take advantage of what Jef Hale & SAFCC have to offer, like educating the public.
This is a problem that won't go away on it's own; catching and killing feral cats will never fix it. It has been proven that It doesn't reduce the numbers, it only allows for new cats to move in & the breeding process to continue.
By spaying & neutering these cats, they will not be able to produce offspring: less offspring, less cats!
Before jumping to conclusions or if you are interested in helping, contact a TNR resource like Jef Hale's and find out the truth or how you can help within your community.
All feral cat caretakers need to be extra vigilant during this time, and all times, really. If you know of or witness someone hurting a cat, CALL THE POLICE. Report it. And while you're at it, call the media as well. Drag the abuser to the spotlight.
Rowan: Do you really want to compare feeding feral cats with factory farming?? Do you realize how irrational that sounds?
And why do you bird people come to cat website to harass people? Do you guys not have enough to do in your lives? Get a life already.
You are absolutely correct, that humans kill more animals than feral cats ever will. One of my neighbors used to shoot at birds with a bb gun. It was disgusting, but fortunately, he doesn't do that anymore.
BTW, does anyone else see something very odd about "birdchaser," above? I have a strong suspicion he is not the person he claims to be on his website. I strongly suspect this is none other than Jim Stevenson, the twisted S.O.B. who shot at least one cat in Galveston, Texas. I'm sure you all are aware of all of that. Stevenson used to have a different blog called birdadvocate.org, which doesn't seem to exist anymore (surprise, surprise) and he seems to have made a career of trolling on feral cat websites. Just thought I'd bring this to everyone's attention. This guy even posted once on Cathy Rosenthall's website, under birdadvocate.
What's the matter, Jim? Are you bored, since you got canned from Galveston College, and banned from the park where you shot the cat? (And btw, I know you shot at leats a dozen cats, only you took that info off your blog when people noticed.) Get some help already, dude. Go see a shrink, or find religion or something. No one's interested in your lunacy, except those just like you.
It is a new dawn and a new era for feral cats and their caretakers. This means there is much more work for us to do, in talking to our neighbors, and helping people help cats. And being vigilant about the lunatics.
colony does not harm wildlife? Cats are hunters.
They hunt out of instinct. Does not matter how
fat and happy a cat is - it will hunt and can
kill upwards of thousands of wild animals
depending on the lifespan of the cat.
Native wild predators ARE supposed to kill their
prey, and unlike the domestic cat, native
predators need that food to survive and
do not de-populate the local wildlife.
Humans kill wildlife by practicing TNR. They
release an extremely efficient hunting machine.
Cougar - not so. Cats do not prevent other cats
from joining those colonies. If you remove the
food and the cats, the problem is solved.
Olive - my guess is that Rowan is making the point
that millions of animals die through factory farms
to be made into low-quality cat food that is
dumped by the tons into these cat colonies. Just
kind of ironic.
Posting messages of varying opinions constitutes
harassment????
Skonkboy you have no clue about the potential
for disease transmission between cats and humans
versus wildlife and humans.
Well, Jim Stevenson is a cat-killer. It doesn't matter that the jury declared his case a mistrial. He's one sick puppy, and he's become an internet troll. So yeah, I consider that harassment, dumbfounded. He's free to post where he wants. And I am free to expose his tripe. Maybe you're his buddy, who knows.
Dumbfounded, can you tell us the potential for disease transmission between rats and humans? Educate us, why don't you.
"If you remove the food AND THE CATS, the problem is solved."
Oh so you're in favor of KILLING the cats, dumbfounded? Yes or no. Because we ALL know, that's what "removal" means for feral cats.
I'm not surprised that you did not comment on Birdchaser/Jim Stevenson.
Come on, dumbfounded, spit it out. You're either good ole Jim Stevenson, or you're one of him buddies. Come on, don't be a coward, although that's usually the norm for cat haters.
And I repeat, if anyone sees ANYONE harming a cat, CALL THE POLICE. Report it.
Your "opinion" is based on hysteria and falsehood, so yeah, that irks me.
While you're attacking cats for being "non-native," you may want to start with YOURSELF, as a non-native species (human) unless you are a Native American. But you won't, because it's always easier to go out and blame (and in your case KILL) an animal, instead of pointing a finger at YOURSELF, and the damage humans do to native species' environments.
And as for your (and Rowan's) comment about the connection between feeding ferals and factory farming, you better damn well be a stuanch VEGAN, if you're going to point fingers at anyone for feeding feral cats. (But I doubt that.)
Now go back and watch your birdies now. Get LOST, cat killer. (I know you'll never admit to being Stevenson because your lawyer told you not to. LOL)
You know that's a bunch of crap about "varying opinions." What if Olive or SkonkBoy showed up on one of your bird blogs and started saying it's ok to kill birds? You know you wouldn't tolerate it. So stop that whole nonsense about "varying opinions." Do you guys really think cat killers, or people that support killing ferals, are going to be welcome here, except for our entertainment? Yeah, we love to see you expose your ignorance and your insanity.
Yeah, get lost already.
Olive darling, now that you read my post a little more carefully you see I said remove cats and food – then cat removal does work.
I don’t know Jim or his buddies, but how amusing that so many TNR advocates think that whenever anyone posts some anti-TNR message, it just has to be Jimbo! And you guys think YOU are getting entertained.
Here are some important zoonotic diseases. 32 are listed. 12 mention cats, 6 mention various rodents, 4 mention birds, and 16 mention dogs. Things to consider are prevalence and incidence and just how people might acquire these diseases. Some interesting things to consider:
Half the diseases mention dogs, but dogs are typically not free-roaming and humans are more likely to approach and handle a cat than a dog. Same goes for a raccoon versus a cat!
Raccoons and skunks feed at those colony sites next to cats, some of which are not vaccinated for rabies, and some of the cats are housepets allowed outside.
Those catfeeding sites DRAW rodents to the colony. Especially in urban areas, there is a prevalence of non-native mice and rats – the exact animals people are trying to eradicate!
Other pages of interest:
http://www.cdc.gov/rodents/diseases/index.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/rodents/diseases/index.htm
Onward –
I said removal Olive, I never said I was ‘in favor of killing cats’ – make some effort not to put words in my mouth. There are plenty of people that have set up some quite nice backyard digs for these kitties and I know a lot of people in cat rescue that work on socializing the cats, too. Removal does not always mean a dead cat.
This may come as a surprise to you (and for some reason is just SUCH a really hard thing for lots of TNR people to grasp) but just because I don’t think TNR is a good idea does not mean I hate cats. (Gasp!) Yes, that is true. I know a lot of people in your camp just love to propagate that myth, but most of us are not cat haters by any means.
Geez Olive you do make a heck of a lot of presumptions, now don’t you? I have been around cats my whole life – love the furbags. Never ever had a dog, but they’re great too.
You want to know about bird flu? Transmitted by the bite of an infected mosquito and here is some food for thought:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/mar13cats.h...
You have no idea what my opinion is based on – but thanks for the assessment.
I am not attacking cats for being non-native - that is just a fact – they are not native - anywhere. And Olive dear, you seem to have confused species and ethnicity. I am not Native American, but whether Native American or any other nationality/ethnic background, we are ALL the same species. Domestic cats are a non-native SPECIES and they have no original habitat anywhere on Earth.
You also seem to be missing the point about the factory farming comment. Me? I am mostly vegetarian. On the few occasions when I eat fish, I do not buy those types of fish that are overfished (like Chilean sea bass). I go for organic milk, cage free eggs, etc. I admire people who go vegan, but I am at least partly helping by not eating factory-farmed animals. Just think for a moment, the tons and tons of cat food dumped outside for these cats – and you know you always have to put out a lot extra so those pesky coons and skunks and possums and crows and rats and mice don’t eat it all! Y’all heard about how chickens in factory farms get debeaked and plucked alive or scalded alive? And lots of those chickens go toward the crappiest of cat foods. Heck, even some of the better brands still have that animal digest and by product stuff in it. So, that is the point – just a bit of irony for animal advocates, don’t ya’ think?
Skonkboy, gosh wildlife does show up in the city – it is not just a rat and mouse kind of place ya’ know. And again, the pests/vermin are drawn to those cat food bowls. Why haven’t the pests been wiped out? Cause all those non-natives had time to co-evolve, UNLIKE native wildlife in the presence of domestic cats.
Check this out. Look at the first paragraph of the Results and better yet, since a picture is worth a thousand words, check out the chart on the last page after the References. You’ll see the differences there. The cats are affecting the Native Rodents!
http://cals.arizona.edu/pubs/adjunct/snr0704/snr07...
Excerpt:
The house mouse and the house cat have coevolved
in close association with man for 4-6,000
years (Serpell 1986; Lund 1994). Deer mice and
harvest mice in California have had neither the
exposure nor the time to have responded to house
cats in an evolutionary sense. It is possible that cat
predation is selective with regard to harvest mice
and deer mice, and that house mice have evolved
behaviors that reduce the impacts of house cat
predation.
To answer your next question, you never saw a cat climb a tree? Gosh, just about a month ago I saw one climbing down a tall pine in my backyard at 1 am in the mornin’ and one bird flew out of her roost and the cat also disturbed a nest of squirrels. And, geez, come on now – you act as if you never saw a cat that was awake during the day. They hunt out of instinct.
And wow, 50 cats. Over how many years? Wonder just how many deaths of wild animals you helped to cause.
Rusty, you can say whatever you like, but as far as killing birds, get familiar with the Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act and the Endangered Species Act and then get back to me, ok?
Nice chattin’ with y’all.
I won't address that individual anymore, but here are my thoughts for the rest of us that actually do care about cats:
Of course dumbfounded loves cats. You know, I KNEW they would say that. I was just waiting for them to come back and say that. You know why? Because even Stevenson actually claimed at one point he shot the cat to help it out. (In fact, after the whole sickening incident came to light, he changed the wording on his blog even further to say he "attended to" the cat. The same cat he shot, that didn't die right away. The cat choked on its own blood, according to the report.) Go look at his birdchaser website. No where does does he suggest anyone kill a cat, but emphasizes the same thing dumbfounded did, about removal and keeping cats indoors. Look at his little gem above, where he suggests we all go back to work and find a solution that helps BOTH cats and wildlife. And check out how he also uses all kinds of links to back up his nonsense. Just because dumfounded spewed off a lecture doesn't mean didley squat. Remember Stevenson was a college professor. And serial killers sometimes have PhDs. And hey, you know when Stevenson was birdadvocate, he even said how sorry he felt for feral cats. Once I went to the birdadvocate website and asked him straight out if he was Stevenson, and of course my post didn't make it to his blog. But Voila! All of the posts in his website that even remotely hinted hurting a cat is good all disappeared. (hey do you remember that, Jim-bob? I posted anonymously and you said you weren't posting anonymous posts. So I went back and asked you again if you were Stevenson, and that I was going to notify the Galveston police and ask them to watch you closely. You took a heck of a lot of crap off your website after that, I tell you.) Hell the birdadvocate website even begged people for money to contribute to Stevenson's legal defense!!
So sure dumbfounded is going to come back now and say how much they love the little furbugs and try to impress us all with their fountain of so-called knowledge. I was just waiting for them to do that.
Removal works? Really??? Is that why we still have so many thousands and thousands of feral and stray cats in the street, even after San Antonio has "removing" them for decades? They know "plenty" of people with "backyard digs" for thousands of feral cats in this city? Yeah, Couger, how many of you guys have opened up "backyard" digs for a bunch of wild cats in Killeen??
I doubt dumbfounded's buddies have any "backyard digs," unless that's where they stuck the cat carcasses after they killed them. And if they do have enclosures, those cats are not going to be feral cats. They are going to be pets. We're talking about thousands uponsthousands of feral cats that would not fit in 100,000 enclosures, if people really set out to do that, and those cats would be miserable if they were forced to be confined. It would cost the caretakers tons of money, when they could use that money to spay/neuter/vaccinate more cats. Alley Cat Allies even did a 7 year study of a "feral cat sanctuary," and concluded it was nowhere near to being cost-effective.
Yeah, you know who else claims to love cats? The lovely and oh so honest Linda Winter, head of Cats Indoors! Google her and look at the flyer she put out telling everyone they should keep their cats indoors. Sounds great, right? Only there's the fine print, where she advocates taking any stray cats ands you see outside to a "shelter." And then there's Paul Burrowes, who claimed to have "common ground" with the TNR crowd, only to go on to say a feral cat would make a great laboratory animal specimen. All of these people will claim to "love cats," just like dumbass over here, who says they really didn't mean "kill" when they said "removal." (And btw, Linda Winter also claims to have cats of her own.)
Hey, the last time I was at San Antonio Animal control I counted only SIX stinking cats in the adoption center. SIX. What do you supposed they did with the hundreds upon hundreds they were still taking in at the time, both tame and feral? Sure, removal doesn't equal kill. Of course not, dumbass. And "euthanasia" isn't really killing either, right? And animal control has an army of foster people just waiting to take spitting, hissing feral cats into their homes and "socialize" them, to take them to Petco for adoption, with diamond studded collars around their necks. Hell, they can't even save all the friendly cats in that place right now.
It's amazing to me how the anti-TNR crowd uses double-speak. Then when they're exposed, it's "OH NO, I LOOOOOVE KITTIES!! Yeah, they love cats so much they want to keep seeing them killed at animal control? Is this the future, and is the book "1984" a reality?? So dumbass loves cats, but still considers them
pests, and justifies their extermination? Like if I exterminated roaches, but still kept a few in my house, in an enclosure, as pets? How f--king stupid do those lunatics think we are?
I f--king hate cat haters trolling on cat blogs. I hate it. They need to all go away and crawl into their little rats' nests. No one over here gives a crap what they think. And as for Stevenson, I hope someday they have a retrial, and I hope his ass is sent to prison, where he'll be forced to become someone's girlfriend. He won't be so tough there, when faced with someone his own size or bigger, instead of a defenseless animal.
But yeah, we should listen to dumbass, the cat expert, who thinks they know more about feeding cats than we do. Get a life.
Some people are always going to bitch and complain about all kinds of stuff. I've never understood the mentality of someone freaking out about cats in their yard. But at least animal car services is trying to help address their concerns now.
What planet is Dumbfounded from? San Antonio is known as the "killing fields" in some places. Almost every cat they take in is put down.
Do you want a medal for guessing that I would say I love cats? What, by gosh, is your point? Are you THAT close-minded that you simply cannot understand how a person can love cats and not want to see them re-abandoned to a cat colony to live a crappy life and die from some tragedy?
This is very simple. Because you CHOOSE not to see what other people are doing or how they think or what the research says, you can just dismiss it. “If I don’t look, it is not there.”
Yes, removal does work IF you remove the cats and the food.
Even some TNR people have set up enclosures in their yard. This is a good site:
http://www.thecatsden.net/
But, I don’t expect you, Olive, to go to any extra work to find a solution that actually protects the cats and wildlife.
What is the journal citation for this ACA study of a feral cat sanctuary?
BTW, Linda Winter has not been at ABC since 2006. And what fine print? Yes, ABC advocates taking cats to shelters and yes, they may be euthanized. PETA advocates this too, and EVEN some TNR groups advocate this! Read How to Help Neighborhood Strays from this TNR group:
http://www.ffur.org/catlog/index.php/C7/
And I believe you mean Paul Barrows – did you bother to read his work in the 2004 issue of JAVMA? Or Linda Winter’s? Or David Jessup’s? Or Julie Levy’s in 12/2005 in which the results did not, in fact, reduce the population growth or the population multiplier? I’m guessing no.
Oh, I know a euthanized cat is a dead cat – just like the one mangled under the hood of a car or crushed by one, but possibly still lingering in pain because some TNR advocate thought a return to a colony was a compassionate thing to do for that animal.
And I do not consider cats pests, but other people may, which is one more reason not to have colonies near them.
So you know a lot? Tell me Olive, how many colonies have you eliminated through natural attrition?
Rusty dear – I am not acting – but like Olive, it is just easier for you to think so.
Informant, some folks do not want cats defecating in their yards, killing birds at their feeders, leaving cat hair on the lawn furniture, etc. And coffee grinds and citrus peel ain’t gonna do much of anything. What deterrents are they giving out? Sprinkler SYSTEMS? Or just sprinklers? Gee, maybe I should sign up!
Well, dumbfounded, maybe you SHOULD call ACS and see what they have to offer. Jef Hale at least is TRYING not to kill cats. I commend him for that. ANd btw, the deterrents have been very popular. I just received word that they're ordering more. Give it a shot. You may learn something.
And nope, I have NOT eliminated any colonies through natural attrition. Because you know what the REALITY is?
CATS WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND IN THIS WORLD, UNTIL THE END OF TIME. There's no getting around that. Again, why don't answer me as to why we have thousands upon thousands of feral cats in this city, if removing them is so effective???
I'm familiar with enclosures, and I'm familiar with that cat den website. I have a screened-in porch for my own indoor cats. Can you ask whatever buddy you have that has one if they can take a couple of THOUSAND feral cats in their backyard enclosure?
CATS EXIST. That's the reality. Get used to it. They're not going to disappear completely or be eradicated just because you remove them, and TNR won't wipe them out either. They will always be around. TNR keeps them from breeding and keeps them healthier. And yes, I know cats get hit by cars and eaten by coyotes. But the truth is that animal control agencies kill even more cats than that. Animal control kills more cats that cars, dogs, and even disease put together. Animal control agencies kill hundreds of cats a week.
Why don't you think about how YOU would feel if someone were to decide you're better off dead just because you MIGHT suffer an accident or die next year. They have a right to live out their lives. Why don't you think about how YOU would feel, if someone would decide they're going to kill you just because you're trying to survive, like everyone else.
That's bullshit, that you don't consider cats pests. You just freaked out a little while ago because a cat scared a squirrel's nest at 1 am!!!
So yeah, go ahead and call ACS, or stop by and pick up some deterrents. You may learn something.
People that practice TNR are going to do so, whether or not they approve of my behavior here. Who the HELL do you think you are? You're NOBODY. You're NOTHING. Get over yourself.
Believe it or not, not everyone has a bug up their ass about a few cats in their yards. One of my neighbors THANKED me the other day for looking after the neighborhood cats and told me how apparent it was that there were LESS (not NONE) in the neighborhood. Maybe some people in some areas of the city are too busy making a living, and living their lives, to even bother with a few ADULT cats, as long as there aren't any kitten explosions.
TNR makes a DIFFERENCE in neighborhoods. We know that. It doesn't make life perfect. If you're looking for a cat-free world, it's not going to happen.
That's LIFE. DEAL WITH IT.
So yeah, I'll keep posting here, until you get the hell away, because if people are truly dedicated to TNR, do you really think my calling you "dumbass" is going to keep someone else from practicing TNR, if they really want to help cats? Get over yourself already, and get the hell out of here.
Just the fact that Barrows came to shoot down TNR, while the city was still GASSING animals, is very telling about the whole mentality of ACS back then.
Look, we can argue till the cows come home, and it doesn't matter. ACS is still going to MOVE FORWARD. People care about the cats in their neighborhoods and people are taking advantage of the city's educational resources. And it doesn't matter that you consider us "irresponsible," we're still the ones busting our asses getting those cats spayed and neutered. What have YOU done lately, besides show up on this blog to bitch about your wildlife bullshit and look up all your bullshit sources?? Because I don't care what sources you used (btw, have you ever heard of a book called "HOW TO LIE WITH STATISTICS??"), hell, there is PLENTY of wildlife around in Texas. Cats are not going to drive birds to extinction. BTW, why don't you bitch about pest control companies? Do you ever worry about all the crap they spray in the environment? Are you going to tell me THAT doesn't affect wildlife? No, because you've decided to target cats. Plain and simple. It's easier for you to target cats that to actually go out and DO anything to help.
But ACS is moving forward, with or without you.
We can commend people for trying to reduce rates of euthanasia at shelters, but not by adopting a method that comes at the expense of wildlife and public health and keeps cats living and dying on the streets.
I know quite well what the reality is – TNR does not eliminate colonies. Further, it does not produce any kind of significant reduction and may actually make colonies increase in size.
We seem to agree on a couple of things though. Yes, cats will be around forever.
That is PRECISELY why natural resources that may not be around much longer (threatened, endangered, rare, special concern) need to be the priority. Even some common backyard species as of the last Audubon report are in trouble.
If you would like proof of successful cat removal, you’ll have to look at that JAVMA 2004 issue. I do not know what attempts have been made in San Antonio to remove both cats and food sources and if any of those efforts have been thwarted by TNR advocates.
Another thing we agree on. No method is going to make a huge difference. BUT, when you remove a colony from a particular area, that land can go back to the wildlife. Colonies can render an area sterile for breeding populations of migratory birds. Maintaining these cat colonies IS a form of habitat destruction. Yes, when you alter one cat, that cat no longer breeds, but that does not ‘stop the breeding’ because more cats move in and if all the cats are not caught, those remaining are fed and better able to breed and to hunt.
I don’t see how you can compare a painless injection to a vehicle or wild animal attack or some poor cat that suffers and dies from FeLV in one of these colonies.
You want me to think from the perspective of a cat. They can feel pain, they have personalities, but they do not rationalize as humans do. What you are missing is that we humans created this mess and like it or not, we are responsible for these animals and that does mean deciding their fates. The question of whether we will make responsible decisions or not is another story.
They are domesticated creatures that do not deserve to live and die in colonies. You also do not seem to understand that we have a huge responsibility to our environment and maintaining healthy ecosystems to the best of our abilities. Sometimes that means predator control – and not just of non-native/invasive animals. And this means doing something about ALL things that affect the environment – sprawl, climate change, pesticide use, communication towers, AND cat predation. The effect is very much indeed a cumulative one and none of these issues can be dismissed as not important.
I’ll try AGAIN – I do not consider cats as pests. I don’t refer to any animal as a pest or vermin (except maybe a few choice words for mosquitoes). I did not ‘freak out’ because the cat disturbed the squirrel nest, but I DO maintain my yard as a haven for wildlife. Let me try your game a little – you can’t really do this of course, but just to make a point:
How would you like to be momma squirrel – settled down in her nest that she just built that morning anticipating the arrival of 4 young ones on the way – to be frightfully awoken by something that eats you?
How would you like to be a fledgling or a momma robin?
Momma robin and her mate hatched four nestlings. From dawn til dusk imagine the hard work in finding enough food to sustain those four hungry, gaping mouths. In the wild, they are fed constantly throughout the day – maybe every 15 mins or so. Imagine that for 12 hours or more a day. Now, imagine that for 2 or 3 weeks. Now, watch as your first offspring fledges from the nest to the ground – not quite yet able to fly but can hop a little bit and flutter. Then BANG! Out of nowhere, in the mouth of a cat, but the cat is being fed and only felt like ‘playing’ because well, that is what cats do.
Now imagine that the bird is not even a robin, but a species of wren that is in serious decline.
Now imagine the number of domestic cats that exist – they far outnumber ALL NATIVE PREDATORS COMBINED.
How do you feel about your choice/your action to release that cat now? You may not be able to stop a bulldozer, but you can be an advocate for open space and tell your local government how you feel. You can stop using pesticides. You can conserve more water. AND, you can choose not to release that cat. If you cannot euthanize her, then give her sanctuary or socialize her for adoption. That is how you help the cat without harming wildlife.
No, we won’t change each other’s mind, but at least think about the consequences of your actions – for the wildlife, the cats and everyone else.
As for your last post – tell me, if the city is not going to accept a cat in a trap, then do you really think it is wise to leave only TNR and some deterrents as the only options? What about land managed for wildlife? What about neighbors who are feeding and not doing TNR, and the people next to them? What about wildlife rehab centers that may have cats on their property?
Somehow this question always comes up from you folks – what have I done? Lots of wildlife and domestic animal volunteer work. I don’t ‘target’ cats – haven’t you caught on to stop making presumptions????
Does it make you feel better to refer to something that you refuse to look into or that you don’t understand as bull?
Did you bother to take a look at that Hawkins study? Do you find any lies in there?
Also, Jackson estimated that cats are primarily responsible for the extinction of 33 species of birds world-wide. Veitch attributed cat predation as primarily responsible for the extinction of 8 island bird species and the eradication of 41 bird species on the New Zealand islands.
Why must we wait for a near extinction to occur? That is the essence of TNR – total environmental irresponsibility.
BTW, you missed the point again. The reason that SOME TNR advocates do care about how you conduct yourself is that you give others and the movement to some extent a bad name. I have had a handful, not many, just a handful of rational, thought-provoking conversations with TNR advocates – and we did not agree on much, but civility breeds respect. Think of it that way. You are filled with too much hate dear – and you don’t even know me. And yet somehow, you feel the need to tell another human being ‘you’re nobody, you’re nothing’. Olive I am not going to assess my placement or value in the world, but I will say this. There have been plenty of ‘nothings’ and ‘nobodies’ who have gone on to make a difference for others, simply motivated by nothing more than a passion.
Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
-Margaret Mead
Remember karma. It may come back to bite you in the ass, when someone does to YOU what YOU do to feral cats, by "removing" them.
I HAVE dealt with neighbors that feed cats and don't TNR. I wound up TNR'ing the cats myself, paying for it ALL, out of my own pocket. It didn't stop me from looking after the cats.
We DEAL with neighbors. We don't throw in the towel, or "remove" the animals. We ALL deal with people that don't TNR. We sometimes wind up doing it ourselves for them.
I see plenty of birds in my yard. I see red birds, but I'm not sure if they're robins. But I see red birds, blue birds, hummingbirds, among others. I see LOTS of colorful birds, dumbfounded, so I seriously doubt cats are that efficient as hunters. (Not to birds. Snakes, yes. Rodents, yes.) Hey, how do you feel about parakeets? One of my neighbors actually hangs a cage outside, with a parakeet, during the day. The cats don't even notice it, although it's chittering away. (And that neighbor doesn't even use repellents, as far as I know.) The cats don't even care. Being a skeptical person, I seriously doubt these reports that cats are "killing machines." Just like you're not going to convince me that those "rare, endangered, special concern" species don't have other factors at play that are driving those species to extinction. Like rotten little kids with BB guns who, like my neighbor, will also off a couple of those rare birds you're so concerned about. Don't tell me that can't happen.
Sure, cats will probably get some of the birds. And maybe my next door neighbor shot some with his BB gun, when he was still doing that. Maybe dogs got them, too.
YES, I'D STILL RELEASE THE CAT, DUMBFOUNDED. In spite of your story, about the momma bird, I would still release the cat. And I'll bet I'll STILL see the birds after I release the cat. Birds still come to my yard, even after releasing cats. I SEE BIRDS ALL OVER, IN THIS AREA, and I see cats. There have always been birds in this area, in spite of the enormous feral cat problems here. And hey, if I happen to see any "rare" birds, maybe those birds are the ones that need to be moved to some zoo or sancutary.
Sure, cats kill birds. Sure, some of the babies might wind up in a cat's mouth. Just like kittens sometimes wind up in a dog's belly. Just like some kids wind up getting shot and killed by other kids. That's LIFE. There are people out there with no food on the table, so I doubt a few dead birds (or cats, even) are going to be too significant to someone who's trying to survive as a human being. Priorities? To the person who's trying to take care of their cat or dog, with no money for vet care, their pets are going to be their priorities. Not some "rare" bird. (Which I still doubt cats are solely responsible for driving to extinction.)
Sure, some birds might become extinct. And so might some other animals, thanks to HUMAN hunters with guns, and HUMAN poachers. And THOSE know damn well what they're doing and CAN rationalize.
Yes, i'd still release the cat, even if the momma bird and babies wind up in the cat's belly. There will be other birds. That's life. Just like orphaned kittens sometimes wind up in a dog's belly. It happens. Just like kids getting shot in gangs. Shit happens. It's tragic. We deal with it. There are plenty of kids out there even, who are like your "fledging," and are killed. Tragic. But it still happens. But hey, humans aren't driven to extinction right now. So are they NOT you're priority?? A lot of people think inner city kids are destroying the earth, too. Should we "remove" them and put them to sleep?
Ok, then. A truck could hit YOU someday. Do you want to die NOW, from that "painless injection?" And how can you be so sure it's in fact, "painless?"
I've dealt with FeLV. The cat had been left behind when the owner moved, and he was dying. I had the cat euthanized.
Some cats in well-managed colonies (and by "well-managed," I mean not only fixed, but fed very well), live very long lives. That may be a factor in why colonies don't necessarily die off by attrition as soon as some would like. It depends on the environment. It depends on the neighbors. But not all feral cats lead short, miserable lives by any means. Lots of outdoor cats are perfectly happy where they live, outdoors. If the environment is fairly safe, with little traffic, those cats fine for as long as they live.
Wildlife rehab centers can do TNR too. Hey, Wildlife Rescue in San Antonio supports TNR. Lynn Cuny is a BIG supporter of all of these policy changes, and she rescues wildlife. She was thrilled when ACS stopped accepting cats in traps. Call her and ask her, if you don't believe me. And she's been rescuing wildlife for a LONG time. And she also supports releasing fixed cats.
There are no "sanctuaries" that will take feral cats. Are you kidding? There is no where for these cats to go, but back in the yard. That IS the responsible thing to do, to let them live in peace, after they're fixed.
We're going to have to agree to disagree and move on. Good luck to you. If I find any "rare" birds, I'll call Audubon to come get them. I honestly wouldn't want to be responsible for them.
And yes, if anyone threatened to "remove" my backyard colony, you bet I would fight tooth and nail, for those cats right to live.
All living creatures are affected by diseases. That's why I like cats. You only list 12 diseases cats can transmit. Humans can transmit thousands of sicknesses. I like my odds better hanging out with cats.
You advocate "cat removal"? Where are you suggesting to remove all the cats to if they are going to kill native species wherever they go? Sounds like there is a flaw in that plan.
No such thing as co-evolving. Adapting, yes. The strong pushes out the weak. Maybe you can come down to Florida and help remove all the Cuban anole lizards who are pushing out the native Florida anoles.
Yeah, all those native species like coyotes, wolves, panthers, bobcats, lynx, wolverines, bear, hawks, eagles, etc., better watch out or they may meet a cat. I can see it now. A wolf standing on a chair panic stricken when it sees a cat like women are stereotypically supposed to do when they see a mouse.
My helping a few cats has caused less deaths of native animals in the few years I've been involved than the deforestation that has occurred in this country over the same time period. The bulldozers don't stop. Ask the 900 turtles that got mowed over when the new subdivision got built. If raccoons and Possums eat what is put out for cats then I guess we are helping the native wildlife. I have had box turtles come out and share food with the cats and the cats didn't harm them.
Let me put it this way. I've seen the bad things people do to cats but never saw a cat plot to do bad things to a human so I know who the good guys are.
SkonkBoy
All living creatures are affected by diseases. That's why I like cats. You only list 12 diseases cats can transmit. Humans can transmit thousands of sicknesses. I like my odds better hanging out with cats.
You advocate "cat removal"? Where are you suggesting to remove all the cats to if they are going to kill native species wherever they go? Sounds like there is a flaw in that plan.
No such thing as co-evolving. Adapting, yes. The strong pushes out the weak. Maybe you can come down to Florida and help remove all the Cuban anole lizards who are pushing out the native Florida anoles.
Yeah, all those native species like coyotes, wolves, panthers, bobcats, lynx, wolverines, bear, hawks, eagles, etc., better watch out or they may meet a cat. I can see it now. A wolf standing on a chair panic stricken when it sees a cat like women are stereotypically supposed to do when they see a mouse.
My helping a few cats has caused less deaths of native animals in the few years I've been involved than the deforestation that has occurred in this country over the same time period. The bulldozers don't stop. Ask the 900 turtles that got mowed over when the new subdivision got built. If raccoons and Possums eat what is put out for cats then I guess we are helping the native wildlife. I have had box turtles come out and share food with the cats and the cats didn't harm them.
Let me put it this way. I've seen the bad things people do to cats but never saw a cat plot to do bad things to a human so I know who the good guys are.
SkonkBoy
You sure sounded like you could use a little yoga to calm you down, but whatever.
Do you not feel that you are enabling behavior if you step in and ‘fix’ the problem (no pun intended)? People can continue to feed and to dump and someone else will ‘clean up the mess’?
The behavior of people has to change to produce significant declines in cat overpopulation. TNR undermines this effort and encourages people to dump their animals or not take real responsibility.
You see birds – ok. Great. But, I cannot think of any argument more unscientific than that. Look, unless you are willing to look at population trends, migratory patterns, all reasons for declines, and examine the studies, we won’t get too far here.
The most conservative estimates show the terrible effects of cat predation. And some things to keep in mind are this: you are not out there observing 24/7, cats may completely consume an animal leaving behind no evidence, cats may hunt/kill something and take the prey elsewhere, animals that appear to have escaped more than likely die later from some internal trauma or bacterial infection (a ‘kill bite’ is not necessary to induce death).
See that is one of the problems. People are far too ‘removed’ from the natural world. For lots of people, there is this ‘red bird’ – not a robin or cardinal or tanager. But, cats – whole different story. We grow up with these animals, we love them and hold them, so easy to see how this species, that is grossly overabundant, is made the priority many times.
Parakeets? Cute birds. But are you comparing a caged bird to a free-flying one that cats can actually access?
As I said in my last post, there are many factors that affect wildlife decline and none should be ignored, including cat predation. I think this piece drives that particular point home:
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200...
Seeing from below just all the different snakes you guys have, pretty sad that they are destroyed by your cats in addition to all the other hazards they face:
http://www.kingsnake.com/stha/snakecall.html
Tell me, if someone is doing TNR, does he/she have to record/register the cats or is this an ‘if you feed them, you own them’ law?
http://www.sanantonio.gov/AnimalCare/healthcode.as...
Your thinking is a little backwards. Let the non-native predators/cats stay, but remove a rare bird from what IS actually HER habitat and send her to a zoo? I’d say I’m speechless, but obviously that is not the case.
Moving on – funny you should bring up hunters. Here is a good comparison between hunters and cats:
http://www.remainewild.org/WantedKittyPDF.pdf
http://www.remainewild.org/cat_campaign6.jpg
Kittens winding up in the belly of a dog - one more reason not to send them back out there.
You want to bring into this all the sorrows of the human world, but these things are not comparable. Using them as a rationalization to do TNR makes no sense. Using them to divert attention away from your actions also doesn’t fly.
My passions are animals and the environment, but I have supported more causes than I can list here and worked in some of those areas (like homelessness). But, all these things are beside the point.
Painless? Because that is what euthanasia is – good death. It is an injection to induce death – not the bone-crushing tires of an 18-wheeler!
Standards of euthanasia for wildlife (read 60 to 64):
http://www.iwrc-online.org/pub/Standards%203rd%20E...
AVMA guidelines (lengthy, from June 2007):
http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanas...
As far as FeLV, well you seem to be in the camp that euthanizes for that, but there are plenty of TNR folks that do not test or release regardless.
‘Well-managed’ to me includes a heck of a lot more. I would rather see them enclosed. Barring that, everyone is altered, FIV and FeLV cats and any unhealthy cats are not returned, fresh food and fresh water is given to all members and food is not left out/any excess is removed, colonies not on public land, not near wildlife, placed in temperate areas or having sufficient shelter, all vaccinated and up to date, removal of feces – even better. No cats added to colonies by caregivers. Monitored for dumping of pets. New cats that join by finding the food are trapped and fixed immediately (because we all know that cats actually do NOT prevent others from joining even though so many TNR folks propagate this myth). Colonies for true ferals only.
If there were a way to deworm, detick and deflea regularly that’d be good, too.
I do not support TNR, but I think if the above was in place, that may bring some of these colonies ‘up to code’ so to speak. Better still, make the caregivers the legal owners of the cats so someone can be held responsible/liable should something happen.
Rehab centers doing TNR? Sure, after weeks and weeks of rehabilitation and resources that went into saving a wild animal so she can be released to her habitat – great goal there.
I looked at that rehab site. Took me forever to navigate, but I looked at a few pages. She seems to have cats in enclosures and is also trying to get cats adopted. She comments on the baby bird page to leave the fledgling alone, parents are probably nearby, but get all dogs and cats away from the bird; she acknowledges nature in action should a snake or hawk come along. Could not find anything about TNR on the site. What do the other four rehabbers in your county think? Most rehabbers are against TNR, but a few do TNR, heck a few probably even let their own cats outside. So you say she endorses releasing fixed ferals? What can I say – there are also medical doctors who smoke.
The responsible thing to do is to see that the cats do not harass or harm wildlife, to protect the cats themselves from outdoor hazards and to eliminate or substantially reduce any public health risks – then we can all live in peace.
I never said that cats were the biggest problem for wildlife. Habitat loss is and cat predation is the second leading cause in some places and a significant cause in general. As far as the zoo is concerned, sounds like they need better policies to control the kids. I don’t see how them referencing a citation or study makes any point. You have to look at these studies/documentations/research work yourself and then decide.
I hope maybe at some point you consider fencing in those colonies or encouraging others to do so. I really think that is the best true compromise.
Thousands? Oy. Again: think incidence, prevalence, contact. We are not trying to compare this to pneumonia, etc. But, think of it this way: heart disease is the number one killer of American women. That does not mean we ignore breast cancer.
Removal - from the environment. Some socialize to adopt. Others may set up enclosures (fenced-in colony, screened-in porch, enclosed barn or cattery, etc.) They should not be free-roaming which would allow access to wildlife.
No such thing as co-evolution? Double oy. Here, read:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIFC...
As far as reptiles, removal is already happening:
http://scgov.net/NewsStories/News6.asp
My, quite a list there. Well, you’ve got a host of animals that can harm that cat you release, like coyotes.
You listed bobcats and panthers (panthers are endangered and bobcats are state endangered in Indiana and New Jersey, and state threatened in Illinois – I do not know the status in other states). FIV, FeLV, FIP and FPV have been found in these animals.
How terrible.
Cat food attracts bears – not so good in bear country – the bear winds up getting shot.
Hawks and eagles – no. But great-horned owls pick off cats; and cats prey on smaller owls, like screeches, saw-whets and Cactus Ferruginous Pygmy-Owl to name a few.
Turtles and cats? Can you say salmonella?
And no you are most certainly not helping wildlife by feeding raccoons, skunks, etc. Those are rabies vector species for one thing. They learn when the dinner is served, they forage less for their own natural food sources, they habituate to humans and then a wildlife conflict may occur at which time their butts are relocated from THEIR habitat or THEY are euthanized.
Not about blaming the cats – not their fault. Blame goes to the people who don’t alter their pets, allow them to roam, dump them, and release to free-roaming colonies.
Just for the record, NO THAT WAS NOT A THREAT. Now YOU are putting words in MY mouth. That's not what I meant. Cut that bullshit out.
There's always going to be a battle going in this arena, and we're always going to step up and protect the cats. And we will WIN because your sources
are flawed. Yeah, I'm sure I can guess who paid to do that research. The San Antonio Zoo?
And that's that. Agree to disagree.
But I'm with SkonkBoy all the way. I know who the good guys are.
The nine lives of Jim Stevenson
By LISA GRAY
JIM Stevenson says someone tried to blow his head off late last month. Maybe that was to be expected.
"A walking abortion clinic," the Galveston bird lover calls himself. A big, dramatic man, Stevenson has a talent for sound bites, and that one nicely captures the white-hot anger he inspires.
Not long before the incident, in a trial that drew international attention, the unrepentant Stevenson faced up to two years in prison for shooting a feral cat that he'd seen stalking a piping plover. The shorebird is an endangered species, badly adapted to defending itself against cats, and environmentalists argued that Stevenson was essentially right to protect it from the non-native predator. Cat lovers responded that there's something deeply wrong with anybody who'd shoot a cat. Ever.
The jury pronounced itself hung, but the story refused to die. Cat lovers were infuriated that Stevenson got off scot-free, and two death threats propelled him back into the national news.
Unwavering in defense of his cause, he seemed to enjoy his enemies' fury. Even Stevenson's fans admit he can be prickly - an unfortunate trait for a tour guide and B&B proprietor. But mainly, he's an ornithologist, and members of his birding flock say that he more than makes up for that orneriness with avian knowledge and passion. He's especially riveting, they say, when he describes how different species fit into their ecological niches.
You wonder: What is Jim Stevenson's own niche? Is he a hero or a villain? Is he a predator? or is he prey?
Shot in the dark
On Nov. 28, Stevenson says, someone did more than threaten him.
This is how he tells the story: He was spending a quiet Wednesday evening at home alone. Sometime after dark, he remembered that he'd left an expensive telescope in his car, and went to retrieve it. As he prepared to exit his sun porch, a gunshot shattered its glass door - the spot where his head would have been if he hadn't paused a split second. He scrambled inside for safety, turned off the lights and dialed 911.
Then he called his lawyer, who told him to report the incident to the FBI instead of the Galveston police. But Stevenson had already dialed 911.
Stevenson says that the Galveston Police Department's officers dislike him, and maybe that's true; lots of people dislike him. And besides, in the courtroom, Stevenson's lawyer had attacked an officer's credibility.
At Stevenson's house, the responding officers were skeptical of his story. They looked for flecks of shattered glass on his clothes, says Rick McCullor, the detective in charge of the case. The tiny, highly reflective shards tend to stick to people, but the cops saw nothing sparkling on Stevenson. They asked him to take a gunpowder-residue test that would show whether he'd recently shot a firearm. He declined.
Stevenson says that, fearing for his life, he spent the night at a hotel, then hustled out of town the next morning. When police Detective McCullor called his cell number, asking that he come in for questioning, Stevenson was driving east on Interstate 10, halfway to Louisiana. He offered to answer questions then and there, on the phone, but McCullor declined. The detective says it's crucial to do such interviews in person, where body language and facial expressions can reveal whether someone is telling the truth.
Who shot at Jim Stevenson's house that night? The Galveston Police Department has dropped its investigation. But their leading suspect appeared to be Stevenson himself.
Time to fly?
Why would someone stage his own attempted murder? According to Stevenson, the cops who responded to his call argued that he might have shot out his own door as a publicity stunt to drum up business. Stevenson pooh-poohs the notion. News of his attempted murder, he said, is the worst thing in the world for his business: Even the most fervent birder wouldn't want to risk his life by staying at a B&B stalked by a murderous shooter. And who'd hire a tour guide who himself attracts predators?
Still, not all of Stevenson's business is in Galveston. He often leads guided tours to birding hot spots such as Costa Rica - places where a gun-toting stalker would be unlikely to follow. It's possible that Stevenson's expanding notoriety could make him an international draw: a near-martyr for biodiversity.
Lying low for now, Stevenson asked that I not reveal his whereabouts lest the shooter try his luck again. He's not sure what he'll do next, he said. He's looking into several bird-related opportunities. Maybe he'll leave Galveston, or maybe not. Everything is in upheaval.
Under the circumstances, he sounded upbeat, confident that he'd find a new niche somewhere. He is, after all, no piping plover. He can fend for himself. He'll adapt.
Good grief – more comparisons to Jimbo.
You guys ‘win’ because people don’t look at the sources. The sources are not flawed. Groups like ACA boasting over a 4 million dollar budget, well-organized, make a lot of noise – that is what gets attention and makes national news – not the red knot that could very well be gone in a few years. Quite sad.
I had one Mayor tell me outright he could care less if TNR worked, free services were being given. You ‘win’ because things come down to a perception of cost savings – all about money.
You guys ‘win’ – cats, wildlife, human health and welfare lose.
I agree – we disagree.
No, the CATS WIN. Don't be a dumbass. But that seems to be second nature to you. Dumbass. Go practice your yoga, or go screw yourself already.
Ok NOW, I'm done with this nitwit.
It is as they say: When is a cat not a cat? When it becomes a goat. A SCAPEGOAT.
You know how much money Dodge has given to TNR? PetSmart? Maddie’s Fund? The ASPCA?
ABC has about a five million budget and that is for the protection of ALL native birds throughout the Americas against ALL forms of destruction.
Look, you can remain ignorant – or you could do some homework. You opt for ignorance – fine. Cats lose. Get thee to a library, read a scientific journal, and learn something. You could have started with the Hawkins study link, but I know – easier to avoid the truth.
And there is that charming hostility again. What are you up to now? Three or four times being ‘done with me’ – I lost track.